Alpha 4 feedback thread



  • I don't like the auto output idea unless there was a specific container like a Barrel or a tailings chest or something. What I would agree with is having an inventory with tailing still affect the surrounding unless properly contained. I.e: If I put tailing in a chest it leaks pollution (at a slower rate) and unless I place it in a Tailing Container (preventing 90% leakage or something). Very similar to Nuclear Dumps in real life, go store in mountain deep under ground or something.

    Reasons why I don't like the auto output.
    As named above: Somebody can just keep their tailing outputting and destroying the world. Furthermore what would stop a griefer from placing those cheap blooms and claiming the area and polluting the area. At least currently there is no way to combat malicious behavior or force an unclaim of land by others (that I am aware of).

    Pollution is getting an overhaul with the next path (4.2 I am going to guess), affecting the atmosphere and more more more. Happy Acid Rains everybody.

    Sure there are lots of improvements to be made, for now it is what it is until it gets fleshed out more.



  • @Nappelinis said:

    Furthermore what would stop a griefer from placing those cheap blooms and claiming the area and polluting the area. At least currently there is no way to combat malicious behavior or force an unclaim of land by others (that I am aware of).

    Well, considering the amount of points needed to reach a bloomery, the griefer would need some real dedication...Peacekeepers/mods/admins would (should) be able to revoke property claims.

    The auto output is just a thought. Kind of like how burning coal would release pollution automatically unless properly contained. I understand the need to avoid pollution, but like real life, things should START dirty, and steps should be taken to improve efficiency and cleanliness. The steam engine didn't start in its current iteration, for example. It was originally wildly inefficient. Bloomeries, at least in the fashion that the model represents, were incredibly inefficient. They took a LOT of charcoal (a thing we need, for the record) to yield very small amounts of iron at all.

    This is just my take. Realism in place of enjoyment is not a solution, ever, but I think there are some concessions made in the beginning smelting/smithing stages that are a bit too kind...



  • I agree, some things need to be made harder. Like how farming has become harder early on with being a 5 Sp skill under agri before you can get a hoe (unless bought or traded for). I think at this point there needs to be still some easy stuff. A lot of new players we encounter on our server have a very hard time getting started. Not knowing how skills work and starting with an almost empty inventory (the random claims in our spawn are ridiculous :)

    I do enjoy games that make progression hard/very hard. After all we are starting pretty much in the stone age.

    Certain that the skill tree and progression will be adjusted over time to enhance game play. I.e: Skill: Schooling cost me 7 Logs and its Tier 3 of Adv Research, which is already changed for 4.2 to 100 Paper. Those kind of adjustments are needed as well as fine tuning progression.



  • 4.2 a very large bugfix and stability release that will be coming next Tuesday; unfortunately the cool new pollution and climate stuff will not be in there.

    Tailings were always intended to be harmful and the way they function now is a very temporary solution. We're hoping to give both mining (especially how ore is obtained) and smelting (in both method and quantity/time) a good look at before Alpha 5's release. Everyone playing the game and testing things out gives us much more information than we had before and you can be sure that we're taking it into account.



  • One thought going forward is having stockpiles and thr concept of "linked" inventories

    Stockpiles would store most block-based materials (ore, tailings, logs) it a big pile outside. You could then link nearby craft tables to those inventories to ease management of those kinds of resources.



  • A few comments/thoughts about inventory UI:

    • The bench UI is overly tedious because of the tabs. Maybe instead of tabs, show everything in one window. Didn't alpha 4.0 condense this a bit better?

    • Opening 2 or more inventory windows at the same is clunky and non-obvious for beginners (although I am used to now). Mouselook, E, Tab, Mouselook, E, Shuffle windows... can this be easier?

    • When I have 2 or more inventory windows of the same type open I almost immediately get confused about which is which. I keeping thinking about Astroneer's window-free UI where you can directly drag pieces off equipment and attach them elsewhere; I'm not saying Eco should go all the way to that, but coupling the screen location of an inventory window to the in-game object could make things easier to understand. Maybe an inventory mode that opens all in-range inventories and keeps their windows atop their respective objects?



  • I'm reasonably new to Eco and to tell the truth, I think this is one of the better games being made right now. It isn't your traditional block builder like Minecraft or another Alpha game - Rising World which I love. The interesting point here is that you need to watch how what you do impacts the rest of the world and you have to work with others to achieve a world that can progress enough to stop the meteor.

    The only real thing that isn't a bug that I'd put here is that I can't fathom why there are any restrictions on where you put a chest. Not being able to place chests in rooms that contain 2 tables already really is ridiculous. For that fact, requiring a room for a chest is a bit ridiculous. I understand reasoning behind the various tables but the storage in the tables is too limited for anyone who is productive. A chest is REQUIRED for most tables for anyone who is really active and productive at what they are doing. To create one room per table is nonsense as well but it is effectively what is happening to me and most folks I have met playing the game. This wastes raw materials more than anything else I can think of so far in the couple of weeks I've been playing.

    I would love someone to point me to the theory crafting behind the chest requirements. Other than that, I've found the game fairly balanced but I admit I'm on the edge of my seat for the October 3rd update coming.

    Edit Since I posted this I figured out I can place more than one chest in a room with 2 tables and it still be functioning. The thing that still puzzles me is the extra space to either side of the chest to place it and why it can't be placed outside a room and function.



  • @Furbal said:

    why there are any restrictions on where you put a chest. Not being able to place chests in rooms that contain 2 tables already really is ridiculous. For that fact, requiring a room for a chest is a bit ridiculous. I understand reasoning behind the various tables but the storage in the tables is too limited for anyone who is productive. A chest is REQUIRED for most tables for anyone who is really active and productive at what they are doing. To create one room per table is nonsense as well but it is effectively what is happening to me and most folks I have met playing the game. This wastes raw materials more than anything else I can think of so far in the couple of weeks I've been playing.

    I believe in the most recent versions of the game the storage chest doesn't require its own room; a theoretically infinite amount of them may be placed inside any room. If that currently isn't the case its unintended and it will be the case in Alpha 5. As for placing them outside, that is something we've discussed internally and I can say that outside chests are unlikely to occur soon, if ever. Other methods of item/block storage, however, are something we're definitely looking into.

    The idea behind requiring rooms for tables is relatively simple: we want to encourage the construction of towns/cities rather than having players hunker down in tiny hovels with crafting benches stacked to the ceilings. If the raw materials for constructing these buildings seem high it's because it was intended for players to work together rather than individually complete everything. While early on it may seem feasible to do everything yourself, as the game progresses the requirements become progressively more difficult to fulfill solo.

    Thanks so much for the feedback; it's all appreciated. Alpha 5 is going to be pretty awesome and I'm glad you're looking forward to it!



  • What Craig said! It's also intended to limit storage.

    What I'd like to change to is some kind of stockpile system, where you stack materials in the building, or a connected building, so if you want to get 10,000 logs in a room for some mega crafting you'll need to make a gigantic warehouse for it first.



  • @JohnK said:

    What I'd like to change to is some kind of stockpile system, where you stack materials in the building, or a connected building, so if you want to get 10,000 logs in a room for some mega crafting you'll need to make a gigantic warehouse for it first.

    I'm suddenly reminded of log and ingot stacking from Terrafirmacraft: you could stack these items anywhere without designating a storage area first. (ingot stack pic)

    • This would be great for storing logs in the wilderness for later pickup.
    • Also great for a workshop, but as you say you would need lots of room to store many items.
    • Gives instant visual feedback of inventory without having to rummage through many chests.

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