Weights are a bit unbalanced
This is another thing I'm not sure is a bug but I can't find any theory on it with a quick search: The weights of the various items are far beyond reasonable for most items. A shovel full of stone will never weight 30kg but even taking into account a larger scale, when you put in the mix ingredients that add up to 31kg (one stone, one pitch to make one Mortared Stone) you don't get an end product that weights 50kg. This is specifically the Mortared Stone recipe.
The other thing is the storage capacity in everything. A chest at 4000kg holds roughly 130 +/- a few Iron Ore. For the Whole chest. Far too low. I'd think starting a chest at the 10,000 mark would make far more sense. The tables themselves should hold no less than 10,000 worth of items.
The meat table is a prime example of how the number of storage slots are also far too few. I have gathered roughly 450ish meats. To make them into raw sausage I need a minimum of 10 more slots to accommodate the returned items... and that's with zero bonuses to production and I am maxed so were I to actually queue the entire 450 i'd need probably several dozen slots to hold the resulting items. Make the storage slots dynamic if you don't want to have static place holders.
Again, I'm a large scale operations kind of person so I don't do anything fast or in low quantities. Right now I have over 400 iron ore sitting because I have no where to put it to process it.
An alternative to weight for purposes of capacity... especially since you are trying to make this a viable GAME as well as an educational tool is to change over to number of slots. Make a chest have 12 slots. It can hold 12 stacks of whatever but only 12. Weight doesn't mater. For the various vehicles, make the hand cart hold 6 or 8 slots, the powered double that and so on. Forget weight to make it easy and for game play. Fix the weights if you really feel they are important to the game although, I see no lesson with them at the moment.
Thank you for your time again.
Now i have yet to buy the game, so i might be a bit off about the chest size here but I think 10000kg is too much. My car weighs about 1500kg, that'd be 6 and a half of my cars squished into the chest. Maybe if you were storing solid iron ingots you would hit that but.. say if you were storing meat, that is about 13 really fat cows. Not just the usable meat you would get from 13 of them, but 13 whole entire lumbering overweight bovine.
That's a big chest.
I should think a volume limit would be the best thing here. Perhaps slots, as you say, could work, but the more time consuming route of going through and assigning everything a volume and using that to determine how full a chest is would be the best way I think.
And carts really ought to have both a volume and a weight limit, with the cart becoming full whenever one of them is reached.
As to your first point i totally agree, that would be a mighty shovel to hold 30kg. Maybe half that would be a better number.
It's overall game mechanics I'm talking about here. We aren't after realism in storage because if you were we couldn't do anything with the chests that would be meaningful to the game. You aren't storing 5000 kg of anything inside a chest but for a game, you have to have someplace to store the blocks of the game. For game-play purposes I pointed out what I did in the earlier post. Meat weights 1 kg per piece and stacks in stacks of 100... that's not realism, that's game mechanics and playability. That's what the focus needs to be on some of these things. Having a chest where i can effectively use 2 of the possible dozen slots is frustrating as a player trying to produce on large quantities. The byproducts from smelting alone are all but impossible to deal with on any scale but small. AT least that's what I'm finding focusing this game on nothing but mining type technology.
I can't recommend the game enough. It is incredibly fun even with the minor things that I attempt to point out for further consideration. It could be that I'm missing an important aspect of the theory behind everything and that's why the chest storage is like it is. Either way, I'd be remiss if as an Alpha player I didn't give that feedback. Please! Come join us in playing the alpha! I bet this game becomes a best seller when it's finally released. It really is well designed so far.
Dont worry, i intend to buy the game soon. Just waiting till i have a few extra sheckles.
Now, when i play minecraft i'm a pack rat, nothing gets thrown away, and it leads to these ridiculous rooms full of chests full of stone and dirt and gravel from my excavations. I can take out a huge cavern and store the waste material in 3 or 4 chests. That seems to me like it could be a problem. That dirt and stone would in real life likely be stored in a giant pile outside, which causes runoff problems when it rains, plus it looks bad too, and im sure there are other very real ecological side effects that i just dont know about. These are issues that i think are totally relevant to a game like ECO. If you have really high volumes of stone, dirt, or tailings i think you should have to keep them outside. Maybe even build a barn or some similar storage containment area to cut down on pollution. If you cant handle that, you need to scale down to a point where you can handle it, or deal with the adverse effects.
Im not saying here that i want the game to aim for perfect realism, i totally agree that a chest should be able to hold more than the few hundred kg that you could realistically fit, and the players backpack for that matter, but i dont want to be able to avoid real pollution issues, a core aspect of ECO, for the sake of playability.
I want to have to build those containment areas, solve the waste disposal problems. In real life there are entire industries dedicated to recycling and properly disposing of waste materials. Why not in ECO too?
Cant wait to join you good folks in playing! Im thinking we will get the game for the alpha 5 update.
I agree with everything you said. I'm not sure if it's possible to get what you want. I'd love to see it, for sure. I'm just not sure there's a way to make dirt and stone useable (and not tedious) while still ensuring we have to worry about environmental impacts.
Something we are considering moving more towards is less about weight and more about volume, and introducing 'stockpiles' as a form of storage for large resources such as logs, dirt, ore, etc.
Items like that could then only be moved with vehicles or other means (or by hand in small amounts, similar to how it is now)
That sounds great to me!
Needing to use vehicles to transport quantities of resources means that the roads and railways that might normally just get built for aesthetics will now have a use. Public works infrastructure will be worth paying taxes for. Plus it will make those really big projects a bit tougher, forcing you to plan out a resource supply chain instead of just making a few trips to haul everything in.
I think both of those things would really tie into the game well.
That's exactly the kind of tweak it needs. I'd love to get a sneak peak at how/what you are thinking with that!