Skill set VS Society evolution


  • I am not sure how to bring that, but, will the skill be able to evolve with the society and/or technologie?

    In real life, some people have to learn new skill "line" volontary or not because of the way economy goes or other reasons. Or some skill "line" become useless because of new technologie, like in the industrialization period where a lot of old time worker have to learn to work with machine instead of old tools... Also, If a group decide that some line of working is a wrong way of doing thing.

    Will all the time and ressource spend in this skill line will be lost, or will be there a way to "convert" some "point" in other skill line? (or even, maybe there could be some way that other player help or compasente in the loss of usefullness of a player)

    I hope i am understandable...


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  • Also, in real life, industrialization bring some loss in the need of worker needed.

    ex: if at the start of a game we need 4 miner, but with technologie growing, we only need one, what will happend to the other 3 players, how can we handle their loss of usefullness?

    Maybe with specialist/jack-of-all-trade player?



  • Magellus,

    These are extremely interesting points that you make. As far as I can tell from the research I've done, societies evolve as the individuals invent and adopt new technologies and ways of being. See Schellings' book, "Micromotives and Macrobehaviors" for more on this.

    Perhaps there can be a way to have a dialogue between players and admins and allow the game to be a collaborative and open ended design? I'm also wondering how or if there is going to be a criminal element in the game, which could make the undesirable jobs easier to model as they would be considered "illegal" activities in the society but allowable in the game. I hope this makes sense to everyone as well. Cheers!



  • @killerfurby33, the 200k kickstarter goal that incorporates a criminal/justice system into the game might be what you are referring to regarding "illegal" activities. However you may mean something completely different.



  • Actually,as i understand it, if an action is flaged illegal, the game will prevent us of doing it. But according to the kickstater campaing news, there is a new strech goal that will let player do illegal thing but will then be flagged as criminal.

    But for the skill case, in thinking of it, i realize it's most an in-game concern more then a developpement concern... well... developpement may too add mechanism to handle this kind of in-game situation.



  • @Scots, the criminal justice system is exactly what I was referring to. I'm not referring to anything illegal in the real world. See the Prisoner's Dilemma for more on how we could simulate reality. :)



  • @Magellus I like your questions regarding that a lot and it touches upon what i believe i've found to be a work around for those 'unneeded' skills if said technology does negate their need. I addressed what i perceive to be a reasonable solution here:
    <a href="http://www.strangeloopgames.com/eco-dev-forum/discussion/15/building-and-mining#latest">strangeloopgames.com/eco-dev-forum/discussion/15/building-and-mining#latest</a>



  • So as you perform research in the game and make discoveries, you'll unlock new types of skills. Old skills will become less relevant over time as well, but I do like the idea of an old skill giving you a 'boost' in a new related skill, allowing you to gain it faster.

    And yep illegal activities and prisoners dilemma results will be really interesting. Check out the KS update @cr4zyc4t linked if you havent seen it.



  • So, could I lure somebody out on a pretext, deliberately cut down a tree illegally with them as a witness, and immediately murder them having initiated PVP that way, in the new proposed system?



  • Whoa, lil bit vicious no? I'd think they'd act first knowing you just turned criminal before them, unless there needs to be a bounty registered to them first to make it legal for you to use lethal force, then you the criminal would still have initiative so to speak. Or they could still react but then they would be flagged



  • @Gritmonger hum I will follow @cr4zyc4t , a frag for a tree that's quite extreme, but there is definitely a consequence which has to be proportional. You can't summaries to the death of a character otherwise a lot a people will be frag and the value of the death will be reduce to nothing. Economical sanction (the market don't accept his goods anymore) or levelup sanction (are not able to get new skill).



  • Yeah I think criminals could only fight back once attacked, if at all. Will be something to experiment with I think.

    And yes I want to allow societies to be very harsh if they want, I imagine it will make some things easier and some things much harder.



  • I've imagined that there isn't a real limit on what you can learn, but that learning in general becomes more difficult the more you know. For example, each skill to learn takes <code>(amount of skills known) * 5 + (skill "difficulty") - (related skill boost)</code> minutes, maybe even exponential increase in time.

    There could be required and useful related skills that have an effect on this too. In order to be able to even learn a skill, its required skills would need to be known too. Useful skills "soften" the skill difficulty. For example, carpenters profit from knowing some things from lumberjacks (how to work with wood, for example), but it's not required. It could merely cut the time to learn carpenter skills in half, therefore making it an attractive idea to first learn some lumbering, then switch to carpenter.

    Of course, that means that further down the road, it will be more difficult to switch again to something else, but it also means that you're already diversified your skills a bit, therefore not rendering you completely useless.



  • Yeah lots of ways we could do it, I like that as a way to keep early skills relevant. I think skills can go up infinitely, but you get diminishing returns as it does.



  • In regards to criminal justice: If the society requires a Judge to pass sentence (rather than P2P combat) the only real interaction between criminal/witness will be to decide if to pass that witness status along, or if the witness will extort the criminal (agree to delete the witness status (keep silent) in exchange for some good, or if the criminal attempts to bribe the witness in which case the choice becomes to accept the bribe (thus possibly committing a crime) or refusing and then passing the witness status on.

    In regards to skills, what if it's simpler: Like strength, for example. A player with more strength can do either wood cutting or wood chopping. Or, alternatively, a skill tree where more advanced skills require the development of primitive versions? Although that would mean a player late to the server might be at a more serious disadvantage.


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